One is done by Billy Graham and the other is done by Mitt Romney? :-)
I am training one of our interns to teach more in the "Sunday School" hour. He has a hard time asking questions and drawing out what the class is thinking; he just tells them his own conclusions. Good teaching I believe gives the class more of an opportunity to participate in the line of thinking.
I would say preaching is more one sided...unless your James MacDonald.
This is a good issue to discuss. I think you can distinguish preaching and teaching from each other in different ways, depending on how you look at it. I'm going to type some eclectic thoughts.
"Preaching is always teaching, but teaching isn't always preaching." With this idea, preaching is a subcategory of teaching. Preaching is a type of teaching that is primarily monologue. Preaching features more exhortation and application. Preaching highlights delivery (body language, passion, voice inflection, eye contact, etc.) more than lecture style teaching.
Preaching is a proclamation, teaching is an explanation.
Preaching is TMS chapel, teaching is TMS classes.
Some TMS students find out that they aren't gifted in preaching and so pursue more teaching oriented ministries.
Historically, I find methods of teaching and preaching have morphed. Early Classical Greeks, I'm sure you are familiar with Plato and Socrates, had a very nuanced model of thinking that the methods of teaching do not necessarily match today. Their method was directed towards end goal of "Thinking" and thinking well. If you are familiar with a "Socratic" method of teaching, it focuses on the idea of question asking. It teaches through a barrage of questions. Consequently, its product is a "curious mind". I, would gladly submit, this influence would greatly enhance our thinking, our teaching, and our proteges/flock. The reason is multi-faceted. We will already be focusing on content, but a goal would be to produce thinkers, not repeaters/puppets. A wonderful, Liberal Scholar (like my pun :) Emerson has said in the later 19th Century: "A Scholar is man thinking, but a man, in his depraved state, is man repeating the thoughts of another." The pinnacle of man in this state, then, is to be a well-developed thinker. A good question produces the seed-bed of a learner.
There may be an exegetical argument to help differentiate between the two. I'm sure we are all familiar with Eph 4.11. The final clause is "Pastor and Teacher." If you look in Wallace "Beyond the Basics", he provides a great argument for "Sharp's Rule" and constructions following a "Sharp-like" arrangement. Eph 4.11 is a "Sharp-like" construction, meaning the Pastor-Teacher model is not being advocated here. However, the "Sharp-like" construction possible provides what Kyle was getting at. There is a subdivision within a heading. Meaning, does teaching provide preaching or does preaching provide teaching. That differentiation cannot be found directly in the grammar of Eph 4.11, though I'd lean towards the idea that Teaching is main category with preaching as a subset. SO, every teacher is not a preacher, but every preacher involves some teaching.
Moreover, there are other nuances bound up in the Greek word "poimenas". It is that of shepherd. Shepherd branches beyond mere teaching. For example 1 Peter 5, it involves leadership, protection, examplars, etc. However, at the heart of a shepherd/pastor is teaching/feeding. For example, look at John 21.15-19. Jesus asks Peter, "do you love me?" and based upon Peter's response, Jesus says "Feed my sheep....shepherd my sheep....feed my sheep."
Therefore, I'd probably suggest that preaching involves teaching, warning, moving towards responses, guarding, etc. Whereas teaching would more likely have the idea of disseminating information, data, inciting deep thinking, etc. I think there would be a false dichotomy, at least in a biblical world view, that data does not compel responses (Col 1.9-10). We ought to pray earnestly for Knowledge in order to lead a godly life. Possibly suggesting, without knowledge, no form of godly living can exist.
A helpful, classical, model of teaching (which is similar to a Socratic method) is: http://www.amazon.com/The-Seven-Laws-Teaching-ebook/dp/B006BG477Y/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1359052305&sr=8-2&keywords=seven+laws+of+teaching
A helpful logic book, that follows a Socratic method is: http://www.amazon.com/Socratic-Logic-Questions-Aristotelian-Principles/dp/1587318083/ref=sr_1_cc_1?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1359052416&sr=1-1-catcorr&keywords=socratic+logic+Kreeft
A book that may be helpful to note the logical fallacies and argumentative model of Solomon (Proverb 1-9): http://www.amazon.com/Hear-My-Son-Teaching-Learning/dp/0830826041/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1359052468&sr=1-1&keywords=Estes+Hear+my+son
2 out of 3 of these are recommended for teachers by Dave Deuel: (EX OT Prof from TMS)
Historically, I find methods of teaching and preaching have morphed. Early Classical Greeks, I'm sure you are familiar with Plato and Socrates, had a very nuanced model of thinking that the methods of teaching do not necessarily match today. Their method was directed towards end goal of "Thinking" and thinking well. If you are familiar with a "Socratic" method of teaching, it focuses on the idea of question asking. It teaches through a barrage of questions. Consequently, its product is a "curious mind". I, would gladly submit, this influence would greatly enhance our thinking, our teaching, and our proteges/flock. The reason is multi-faceted. We will already be focusing on content, but a goal would be to produce thinkers, not repeaters/puppets. A wonderful, Liberal Scholar (like my pun :) Emerson has said in the later 19th Century: "A Scholar is man thinking, but a man, in his depraved state, is man repeating the thoughts of another." The pinnacle of man in this state, then, is to be a well-developed thinker. A good question produces the seed-bed of a learner.
There may be an exegetical argument to help differentiate between the two. I'm sure we are all familiar with Eph 4.11. The final clause is "Pastor and Teacher." If you look in Wallace "Beyond the Basics", he provides a great argument for "Sharp's Rule" and constructions following a "Sharp-like" arrangement. Eph 4.11 is a "Sharp-like" construction, meaning the Pastor-Teacher model is not being advocated here. However, the "Sharp-like" construction possible provides what Kyle was getting at. There is a subdivision within a heading. Meaning, does teaching provide preaching or does preaching provide teaching. That differentiation cannot be found directly in the grammar of Eph 4.11, though I'd lean towards the idea that Teaching is main category with preaching as a subset. SO, every teacher is not a preacher, but every preacher involves some teaching.
Moreover, there are other nuances bound up in the Greek word "poimenas". It is that of shepherd. Shepherd branches beyond mere teaching. For example 1 Peter 5, it involves leadership, protection, examplars, etc. However, at the heart of a shepherd/pastor is teaching/feeding. For example, look at John 21.15-19. Jesus asks Peter, "do you love me?" and based upon Peter's response, Jesus says "Feed my sheep....shepherd my sheep....feed my sheep."
Therefore, I'd probably suggest that preaching involves teaching, warning, moving towards responses, guarding, etc. Whereas teaching would more likely have the idea of disseminating information, data, inciting deep thinking, etc. I think there would be a false dichotomy, at least in a biblical world view, that data does not compel responses (Col 1.9-10). We ought to pray earnestly for Knowledge in order to lead a godly life. Possibly suggesting, without knowledge, no form of godly living can exist.
A helpful, classical, model of teaching (which is similar to a Socratic method) is: http://www.amazon.com/The-Seven-Laws-Teaching-ebook/dp/B006BG477Y/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1359052305&sr=8-2&keywords=seven+laws+of+teaching
A helpful logic book, that follows a Socratic method is: http://www.amazon.com/Socratic-Logic-Questions-Aristotelian-Principles/dp/1587318083/ref=sr_1_cc_1?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1359052416&sr=1-1-catcorr&keywords=socratic+logic+Kreeft
A book that may be helpful to note the logical fallacies and argumentative model of Solomon (Proverb 1-9): http://www.amazon.com/Hear-My-Son-Teaching-Learning/dp/0830826041/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1359052468&sr=1-1&keywords=Estes+Hear+my+son
2 out of 3 of these are recommended for teachers by Dave Deuel: (EX OT Prof from TMS)
Interestingly enough, the Scriptures don't give us qualifications for "preaching." The Bible talks about preaching, but does not give certain parameters to those who would aspire to preach. If I recall correctly, the Bible doesn't even give us indication that preaching is a spiritual gift. Teaching is a gift that is granted by God, and one that requires an upright, moral, above reproach type life. Preaching (proclaiming) is something that is expected of every believer.
According to everyone else who has posted it seems we agree preaching is a subset/subcategory of teaching. "Preaching is always teaching." So in that case all the qualifications of teaching would be applied to preaching.
Yes we are all to "make disciples" which includes the ability to articulate the gospel, but this is by no means the same activity as preaching. Within the church it is understood that everyone is not a preacher, there are generally only a select few who fulfill this task and they have to be gifted and qualified.
Thanks for all of your comments men. Very fruitful for my thinking.
Here are some resources that I have been scouring lately for understanding the distinction. It may be a lot, but read it all!
Preaching and Preachers, Martyn Lloyd Jones
"Any true definition of preaching must say that that man is there to deliver the message of God, a message from God to those people. If you prefer the language of Paul, he is ‘an ambassador for Christ’. That is what he is. He has been sent, he is a commissioned person, and he is standing there as the mouthpiece of God and of Christ to address these people. In other words he is not there merely to talk to them, he is not there to entertain them. He is there— and I want to emphasise this— to do something to those people; he is there to produce results of various kinds, he is there to influence people. He is not merely to influence a part of them; he is not only to influence their minds, or only their emotions, or merely to bring pressure to bear upon their wills and to induce them to some kind of activity. He is there to deal with the whole person; and his preaching is meant to affect the whole person at the very centre of life. Preaching should make such a difference to a man who is listening that he is never the same again." Preaching and Preachers (Kindle Locations 899-907). Zondervan. Kindle Edition.
Feed My Sheep, R.C. Sproul
“I make a distinction between preaching-which involves exhortation, exposition, admonition, encouragement, and comfort-and teaching, which involves the transfer of information. I practice both in my own ministry, and sometimes I obscure the distinction.
"The students in my seminary classes will testify that sometimes, in the middle of my lectures, when I'm trying to communicate certain doctrines and information about theology, I'll start preaching, because I'm not interested in the mere transfer of information. I want that information not only to get in their heads but in their bloodstreams. In fact, I warn them at the beginning of each course: "Don't think that I'm in this classroom as a professor in a state of neutrality. I'm after your mind and your heart. I hope not only to instruct you, but to persuade you. I want to move you to grasp not only the truth of this content, but also the importance and the sweetness of it, so that you will take it with you for the rest of your lives. It is not my goal simply to transfer information from my brain to your notebook, because learning doesn't take place until it gets in your head and into your life." Likewise, when I preach, I often sprinkle some conceptual education into the content of my sermons. So I have a tendency to skate back and forth across the line between preaching and teaching. However, I've always thought that the primary thing, as Luther understood, that I'm responsible to do as a minister is to teach the people the things of God." Feed My Sheep: A Passionate Plea for Preaching (pp. 73-74). Kindle Edition.)
Alex Montoya
"Our expectation, then, as the sermon comes to an end, is not merely that people will understand or remember or enjoy our teaching, but that they will do something about it. 'If there is no summons, there is no sermon.'" (Stott, 246)
"Preaching is the declaration of the biblical message to everyone for their good in an understanding manner as a matter of urgency in the power of the Holy Spirit."
Hello! . I am a Brazilian writing in Brazil. . I think that preaching would be to communicate the Gospel, the Plan of Salvation for the lost, those who decided not to accept Christ as the Lord and one and only Savior. It should be the sacred text John 3:16. . As for teaching, would deliver the biblical message to those who already decided for Christ, to those who believed in the Plan of Salvation. As a good example of teaching material, I believe that the three letters of John and James' letter are useful for the spiritual growth of new believers. . My blog: http://belverede.blogspot.com.br. All are invited to visit my page. . Eliseu Antonio Gomes
equal?
One is done by Billy Graham and the other is done by Mitt Romney? :-)
ReplyDeleteI am training one of our interns to teach more in the "Sunday School" hour. He has a hard time asking questions and drawing out what the class is thinking; he just tells them his own conclusions. Good teaching I believe gives the class more of an opportunity to participate in the line of thinking.
I would say preaching is more one sided...unless your James MacDonald.
So monologue vs. dialogue is what you would say. Participation even.
ReplyDeleteAny other descriptors?
This is a good issue to discuss. I think you can distinguish preaching and teaching from each other in different ways, depending on how you look at it. I'm going to type some eclectic thoughts.
ReplyDelete"Preaching is always teaching, but teaching isn't always preaching." With this idea, preaching is a subcategory of teaching. Preaching is a type of teaching that is primarily monologue. Preaching features more exhortation and application. Preaching highlights delivery (body language, passion, voice inflection, eye contact, etc.) more than lecture style teaching.
Preaching is a proclamation, teaching is an explanation.
Preaching is TMS chapel, teaching is TMS classes.
Some TMS students find out that they aren't gifted in preaching and so pursue more teaching oriented ministries.
Historically, I find methods of teaching and preaching have morphed. Early Classical Greeks, I'm sure you are familiar with Plato and Socrates, had a very nuanced model of thinking that the methods of teaching do not necessarily match today. Their method was directed towards end goal of "Thinking" and thinking well. If you are familiar with a "Socratic" method of teaching, it focuses on the idea of question asking. It teaches through a barrage of questions. Consequently, its product is a "curious mind". I, would gladly submit, this influence would greatly enhance our thinking, our teaching, and our proteges/flock. The reason is multi-faceted. We will already be focusing on content, but a goal would be to produce thinkers, not repeaters/puppets. A wonderful, Liberal Scholar (like my pun :) Emerson has said in the later 19th Century: "A Scholar is man thinking, but a man, in his depraved state, is man repeating the thoughts of another." The pinnacle of man in this state, then, is to be a well-developed thinker. A good question produces the seed-bed of a learner.
ReplyDeleteThere may be an exegetical argument to help differentiate between the two. I'm sure we are all familiar with Eph 4.11. The final clause is "Pastor and Teacher." If you look in Wallace "Beyond the Basics", he provides a great argument for "Sharp's Rule" and constructions following a "Sharp-like" arrangement. Eph 4.11 is a "Sharp-like" construction, meaning the Pastor-Teacher model is not being advocated here. However, the "Sharp-like" construction possible provides what Kyle was getting at. There is a subdivision within a heading. Meaning, does teaching provide preaching or does preaching provide teaching. That differentiation cannot be found directly in the grammar of Eph 4.11, though I'd lean towards the idea that Teaching is main category with preaching as a subset. SO, every teacher is not a preacher, but every preacher involves some teaching.
Moreover, there are other nuances bound up in the Greek word "poimenas". It is that of shepherd. Shepherd branches beyond mere teaching. For example 1 Peter 5, it involves leadership, protection, examplars, etc. However, at the heart of a shepherd/pastor is teaching/feeding. For example, look at John 21.15-19. Jesus asks Peter, "do you love me?" and based upon Peter's response, Jesus says "Feed my sheep....shepherd my sheep....feed my sheep."
Therefore, I'd probably suggest that preaching involves teaching, warning, moving towards responses, guarding, etc. Whereas teaching would more likely have the idea of disseminating information, data, inciting deep thinking, etc. I think there would be a false dichotomy, at least in a biblical world view, that data does not compel responses (Col 1.9-10). We ought to pray earnestly for Knowledge in order to lead a godly life. Possibly suggesting, without knowledge, no form of godly living can exist.
A helpful, classical, model of teaching (which is similar to a Socratic method) is: http://www.amazon.com/The-Seven-Laws-Teaching-ebook/dp/B006BG477Y/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1359052305&sr=8-2&keywords=seven+laws+of+teaching
A helpful logic book, that follows a Socratic method is: http://www.amazon.com/Socratic-Logic-Questions-Aristotelian-Principles/dp/1587318083/ref=sr_1_cc_1?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1359052416&sr=1-1-catcorr&keywords=socratic+logic+Kreeft
A book that may be helpful to note the logical fallacies and argumentative model of Solomon (Proverb 1-9): http://www.amazon.com/Hear-My-Son-Teaching-Learning/dp/0830826041/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1359052468&sr=1-1&keywords=Estes+Hear+my+son
2 out of 3 of these are recommended for teachers by Dave Deuel: (EX OT Prof from TMS)
Historically, I find methods of teaching and preaching have morphed. Early Classical Greeks, I'm sure you are familiar with Plato and Socrates, had a very nuanced model of thinking that the methods of teaching do not necessarily match today. Their method was directed towards end goal of "Thinking" and thinking well. If you are familiar with a "Socratic" method of teaching, it focuses on the idea of question asking. It teaches through a barrage of questions. Consequently, its product is a "curious mind". I, would gladly submit, this influence would greatly enhance our thinking, our teaching, and our proteges/flock. The reason is multi-faceted. We will already be focusing on content, but a goal would be to produce thinkers, not repeaters/puppets. A wonderful, Liberal Scholar (like my pun :) Emerson has said in the later 19th Century: "A Scholar is man thinking, but a man, in his depraved state, is man repeating the thoughts of another." The pinnacle of man in this state, then, is to be a well-developed thinker. A good question produces the seed-bed of a learner.
ReplyDeleteThere may be an exegetical argument to help differentiate between the two. I'm sure we are all familiar with Eph 4.11. The final clause is "Pastor and Teacher." If you look in Wallace "Beyond the Basics", he provides a great argument for "Sharp's Rule" and constructions following a "Sharp-like" arrangement. Eph 4.11 is a "Sharp-like" construction, meaning the Pastor-Teacher model is not being advocated here. However, the "Sharp-like" construction possible provides what Kyle was getting at. There is a subdivision within a heading. Meaning, does teaching provide preaching or does preaching provide teaching. That differentiation cannot be found directly in the grammar of Eph 4.11, though I'd lean towards the idea that Teaching is main category with preaching as a subset. SO, every teacher is not a preacher, but every preacher involves some teaching.
Moreover, there are other nuances bound up in the Greek word "poimenas". It is that of shepherd. Shepherd branches beyond mere teaching. For example 1 Peter 5, it involves leadership, protection, examplars, etc. However, at the heart of a shepherd/pastor is teaching/feeding. For example, look at John 21.15-19. Jesus asks Peter, "do you love me?" and based upon Peter's response, Jesus says "Feed my sheep....shepherd my sheep....feed my sheep."
Therefore, I'd probably suggest that preaching involves teaching, warning, moving towards responses, guarding, etc. Whereas teaching would more likely have the idea of disseminating information, data, inciting deep thinking, etc. I think there would be a false dichotomy, at least in a biblical world view, that data does not compel responses (Col 1.9-10). We ought to pray earnestly for Knowledge in order to lead a godly life. Possibly suggesting, without knowledge, no form of godly living can exist.
A helpful, classical, model of teaching (which is similar to a Socratic method) is: http://www.amazon.com/The-Seven-Laws-Teaching-ebook/dp/B006BG477Y/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1359052305&sr=8-2&keywords=seven+laws+of+teaching
A helpful logic book, that follows a Socratic method is: http://www.amazon.com/Socratic-Logic-Questions-Aristotelian-Principles/dp/1587318083/ref=sr_1_cc_1?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1359052416&sr=1-1-catcorr&keywords=socratic+logic+Kreeft
A book that may be helpful to note the logical fallacies and argumentative model of Solomon (Proverb 1-9): http://www.amazon.com/Hear-My-Son-Teaching-Learning/dp/0830826041/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1359052468&sr=1-1&keywords=Estes+Hear+my+son
2 out of 3 of these are recommended for teachers by Dave Deuel: (EX OT Prof from TMS)
Interestingly enough, the Scriptures don't give us qualifications for "preaching." The Bible talks about preaching, but does not give certain parameters to those who would aspire to preach. If I recall correctly, the Bible doesn't even give us indication that preaching is a spiritual gift. Teaching is a gift that is granted by God, and one that requires an upright, moral, above reproach type life. Preaching (proclaiming) is something that is expected of every believer.
ReplyDeleteAccording to everyone else who has posted it seems we agree preaching is a subset/subcategory of teaching. "Preaching is always teaching." So in that case all the qualifications of teaching would be applied to preaching.
DeleteYes we are all to "make disciples" which includes the ability to articulate the gospel, but this is by no means the same activity as preaching. Within the church it is understood that everyone is not a preacher, there are generally only a select few who fulfill this task and they have to be gifted and qualified.
Grace and Peace to you
Thanks for all of your comments men. Very fruitful for my thinking.
ReplyDeleteHere are some resources that I have been scouring lately for understanding the distinction. It may be a lot, but read it all!
Preaching and Preachers, Martyn Lloyd Jones
"Any true definition of preaching must say that that man is there to deliver the message of God, a message from God to those people. If you prefer the language of Paul, he is ‘an ambassador for Christ’. That is what he is. He has been sent, he is a commissioned person, and he is standing there as the mouthpiece of God and of Christ to address these people. In other words he is not there merely to talk to them, he is not there to entertain them. He is there— and I want to emphasise this— to do something to those people; he is there to produce results of various kinds, he is there to influence people. He is not merely to influence a part of them; he is not only to influence their minds, or only their emotions, or merely to bring pressure to bear upon their wills and to induce them to some kind of activity. He is there to deal with the whole person; and his preaching is meant to affect the whole person at the very centre of life. Preaching should make such a difference to a man who is listening that he is never the same again." Preaching and Preachers (Kindle Locations 899-907). Zondervan. Kindle Edition.
Feed My Sheep, R.C. Sproul
“I make a distinction between preaching-which involves exhortation, exposition, admonition, encouragement, and comfort-and teaching, which involves the transfer of information. I practice both in my own ministry, and sometimes I obscure the distinction.
"The students in my seminary classes will testify that sometimes, in the middle of my lectures, when I'm trying to communicate certain doctrines and information about theology, I'll start preaching, because I'm not interested in the mere transfer of information. I want that information not only to get in their heads but in their bloodstreams. In fact, I warn them at the beginning of each course: "Don't think that I'm in this classroom as a professor in a state of neutrality. I'm after your mind and your heart. I hope not only to instruct you, but to persuade you. I want to move you to grasp not only the truth of this content, but also the importance and the sweetness of it, so that you will take it with you for the rest of your lives. It is not my goal simply to transfer information from my brain to your notebook, because learning doesn't take place until it gets in your head and into your life." Likewise, when I preach, I often sprinkle some conceptual education into the content of my sermons. So I have a tendency to skate back and forth across the line between preaching and teaching. However, I've always thought that the primary thing, as Luther understood, that I'm responsible to do as a minister is to teach the people the things of God." Feed My Sheep: A Passionate Plea for Preaching (pp. 73-74). Kindle Edition.)
Alex Montoya
"Our expectation, then, as the sermon comes to an end, is not merely that people will understand or remember or enjoy our teaching, but that they will do something about it. 'If there is no summons, there is no sermon.'" (Stott, 246)
"Preaching is the declaration of the biblical message to everyone for their good in an understanding manner as a matter of urgency in the power of the Holy Spirit."
Hello!
ReplyDelete.
I am a Brazilian writing in Brazil.
.
I think that preaching would be to communicate the Gospel, the Plan of Salvation for the lost, those who decided not to accept Christ as the Lord and one and only Savior. It should be the sacred text John 3:16.
.
As for teaching, would deliver the biblical message to those who already decided for Christ, to those who believed in the Plan of Salvation. As a good example of teaching material, I believe that the three letters of John and James' letter are useful for the spiritual growth of new believers.
.
My blog: http://belverede.blogspot.com.br. All are invited to visit my page.
.
Eliseu Antonio Gomes