“…in abundance of counselors there is victory.” – Proverbs 24:6 (ESV)
Monday, May 30, 2011
Restore?
What do you guys think about a man who has fallen and wants to be restored to ministry? Should a man who has sinned in a grievous way ever be allowed to preach/teach again?
Are you asking me or are you asking ME. God is a God of second chances, e.g Jonah, David, Peter, Paul. I experienced this first hand as I stepped out of Seminary Spring of 2005, for a grievous sin, not sure if I would ever return. After two years of learning humility, repentance and the fear of God, He brought me back into ministry, Spring 2007.
Here are a few factors I would want to consider.
1) Is there true repentance? This is difficult to see if the person was caught in a sin and did not reveal the sin. 2) Distance from the sin. How much time has elapsed and has there been any hint that the sin could rear its ugly head again. This takes years to determine. 3) Is there pride in the mans life? This is key! For me the pride of preaching and teaching enabled my sin to persist. It has been a long road trying to root all of that out. Why does the person want to preach/teach? 4) A Godly man will be happy to sit on the sidelines for a time. A proud man will demand to be used. 5) The congregation must see him as being above reproach? So the question would be - how public was the sin?
A few thoughts from a guy who walked through this fire.
I appreciate your thoughts and willingness to respond to this as you have “walked through this fire.” I also praise God for how you and the godly men who surrounded you handled this situation.
The elders at my church and I are looking into this issue and so I wanted to hear a collective understanding from all you brothers. I have looked at various blogs and reviews of books but have not read any books myself or looked at Scripture. I have more questions for now.
1) Your principles are good but what Scripture would be applied in this situation? What texts would be sine qua non here?
2) Are there higher standards for pastors? Should there be different expectations or disciplinary actions for various “types” of people? For example- a layman vs. an elder vs. a Senior pastor?
3) Some take the view of no, they should not be restored but would consider it on a case by case basis. If you take the view that they should be, is their ever a time when they shouldn’t be because of the sin of immorality? In other words, does that sin ever disqualify?
1. What Scripture would be applied in this situation?
You probably knew this, but Paul (Stewart) was referring to 1 Tim 3 when talking about "being above reproach." I would also include from that critical passage v. 7, "good reputation with those outside." I fell like the points that Paul made are proper implication / application from 1 Tim 3.
Are there higher standards for pastors?
Yes and no. A layman should be aspiring to the qualifications of 1 Tim 3 however an elder / pastor MUST be qualified in these specific ways.
Discipline for the average layman looks different than an elder / senior pastor. The reason for this is by definition the role an elder / pastor plays in the church is that of leadership.
Andrew, do you have any specific scenarios with this? Or can you explain more what you mean by this question?
3. Is there ever a time when they shouldn't be restored b/c of immorality?
If the immorality was so gross, and so out in the spotlight, and therefore the consensus is that former leader is not "above reproach" and not of "good reputation with those outside," then that leader should not be placed back into leadership.
Pretty general thoughts I admit! But it is hard when you you don't have a particular circumstance to discuss.
Are you asking me or are you asking ME. God is a God of second chances, e.g Jonah, David, Peter, Paul. I experienced this first hand as I stepped out of Seminary Spring of 2005, for a grievous sin, not sure if I would ever return. After two years of learning humility, repentance and the fear of God, He brought me back into ministry, Spring 2007.
ReplyDeleteHere are a few factors I would want to consider.
1) Is there true repentance? This is difficult to see if the person was caught in a sin and did not reveal the sin.
2) Distance from the sin. How much time has elapsed and has there been any hint that the sin could rear its ugly head again. This takes years to determine.
3) Is there pride in the mans life? This is key! For me the pride of preaching and teaching enabled my sin to persist. It has been a long road trying to root all of that out. Why does the person want to preach/teach?
4) A Godly man will be happy to sit on the sidelines for a time. A proud man will demand to be used.
5) The congregation must see him as being above reproach? So the question would be - how public was the sin?
A few thoughts from a guy who walked through this fire.
Paul,
ReplyDeleteI appreciate your thoughts and willingness to respond to this as you have “walked through this fire.” I also praise God for how you and the godly men who surrounded you handled this situation.
The elders at my church and I are looking into this issue and so I wanted to hear a collective understanding from all you brothers. I have looked at various blogs and reviews of books but have not read any books myself or looked at Scripture. I have more questions for now.
1) Your principles are good but what Scripture would be applied in this situation? What texts would be sine qua non here?
2) Are there higher standards for pastors? Should there be different expectations or disciplinary actions for various “types” of people? For example- a layman vs. an elder vs. a Senior pastor?
3) Some take the view of no, they should not be restored but would consider it on a case by case basis. If you take the view that they should be, is their ever a time when they shouldn’t be because of the sin of immorality? In other words, does that sin ever disqualify?
Respectfully,
Andrew
Just a few quick thoughts...
ReplyDelete1. What Scripture would be applied in this situation?
You probably knew this, but Paul (Stewart) was referring to 1 Tim 3 when talking about "being above reproach." I would also include from that critical passage v. 7, "good reputation with those outside." I fell like the points that Paul made are proper implication / application from 1 Tim 3.
Are there higher standards for pastors?
Yes and no. A layman should be aspiring to the qualifications of 1 Tim 3 however an elder / pastor MUST be qualified in these specific ways.
Discipline for the average layman looks different than an elder / senior pastor. The reason for this is by definition the role an elder / pastor plays in the church is that of leadership.
Andrew, do you have any specific scenarios with this? Or can you explain more what you mean by this question?
3. Is there ever a time when they shouldn't be restored b/c of immorality?
If the immorality was so gross, and so out in the spotlight, and therefore the consensus is that former leader is not "above reproach" and not of "good reputation with those outside," then that leader should not be placed back into leadership.
Pretty general thoughts I admit! But it is hard when you you don't have a particular circumstance to discuss.